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Post Options Post Options   Quote TedSGN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fight Night Round 3 Impressions
    Posted: 02-26-2006 at 12:32pm
I love this series.  I thought 2004 was great.  I thought Round 2 was even better.  What's my opinion of Round 3?  That's complicated.  I'll attempt to give you a better impression of the game than, "The AI is bad; no the AI is good;  the graphics are jaw-droppingly breath-taking".  Bring your knife and fork as we dive into the meat and potatoes.

These impressions are taken from about ten online bouts with my Fight Night veteran friend Bob from CA, ten career bouts with a light heavy, and ten exhibition bouts with licensed fighters.  These impressions are for the xbox version.

This year's version should have been subtitled "A Puncher's Chance" because that is exactly what you have this year when you are boxing the computer or your human rival.  I'll get to the new punches in a few paragraphs.  I'd like to address the glossy front end stuff first.

When the game begins it is much like Round 2 in menu options, but the graphic presentation has been changed.  There is a gritty colorized looking film appearance.  Not good or bad, just different.  The music is all still hip-hop so I turned it off;  you may choose to turn it up if that is your preference.

All of the same six button configurations still exist so if you are a button puncher as opposed to a stick puncher you can rest easy.  The basic jab, cross, hook, and uppercuts are all still mapped to the buttons, as are the two signature punches.  Last year you could punch with the buttons, but haymakers had to be thrown with the stick so it involved a trigger press if using configs three through six.  This year is the same with all of the special punches requiring stick use with a trigger press.  Again if you use configs one or two all punches are thrown with the stick except for the signature punches.

All of the menu options are pretty much the same and the game modes include an additional ESPN classic mode.  I didn't fight in this mode, but I noticed that I only had one fight available, Ali v Frazier.  I'm guessing the other classics need to be unlocked.

In the ten online bouts I played I saw only a single instance of lag with my friend.  The game paused for one second and then continued.  We never had an instance of slowdown any other time.  There is about a ten second delay from the appearance of the start of the first round to when you can move and box against your opponent.  After that one and only delay it is silky smooth.

Offline the career mode is different than last year, making use of advertisers and licences like Burger King, Under Armour, ESPN.  I'm not enjoying career mode as much as last year and I think it is simply because the career path is too linear.  Last year you could choose an opponent from a list of about seven fighters that were ranked near your ranking.  This year the rankings are gone and instead you choose opponents based upon what you want to accomplish by fighting them, including bonus purses, popularity boosts, and about three other things.  Most of the time you choose between two or three opponents, but occasionally you will see four listed and during some of the special fights like the Under Armor sponsored event you only have one choice.  I did like that I fought some licensed fighters during career mode, but they were weaker versions of themselves which made sense from a gameplay standpoint.  I fought Frasier as an amateur and Holyfield in one of my early professional bouts.

The biggest problem I saw in my ten fights with the career mode is that unlike Round 2 I didn't have the choice to fight fighters that had higher attributes than I did.   All of my opponents were weaker.  Add to that the fact that the AI is different than last year and it amounted to me thinking that career mode in Round 3 doesn't measure up to Round 2.  I will have more about the AI in later paragraphs.  You may have heard about rivals in career mode.  I did notice that they called the fighter that I knocked out for earn the amateur belt my new rival, but I didn't get far enough into career to see where or what happened when I met him again.

This year there are two new additional punches, the flash KO punch and the stun punch.  Both of these are mapped to the right stick like the haymaker.  Let me take some of the hype and mystery out of these punches.  They could have just as easily called them super-haymaker and super-duper-haymaker.  For those of you who aren't familiar or have trouble with the mechanic let me explain.  For the old (and current) haymaker you rotate the stick back and forward to throw it.  So if you wanted to throw a left hook haymaker you would move the stick left to 9 o'clock, rotate it down along the left edge of the seat until it reaches 6 o'clock and then reverse direction and rotate up along the edge of the seat back to 9 o'clock all in one fluid and quick motion.

To throw the same hook with the new flash KO (super-haymaker) move to 9 o'clock, rotate down and around past 6 o'clock to 4 o'clock and then reverse direction and rotate up to 9 o'clock all in one fluid and quick motion.  For the stun punch (super-duper-haymaker) move to 9 o'clock, rotate down to 4 o'clock, and rotate back past 9 o'clock all the way to 12 o'clock. 

The result of the flash KO (super) is you instantly drain the opponents health bar and send him into the KO moment.  It usually only takes one punch to finish him after that depending on what you throw.  The result of the stun (super-duper) is you instantly stun your opponent and go into a first person mini game where your opponent is basically defenseless and you can pummel him and send him to the canvas.  In all of my bouts I only saw a stun punch land twice.  I landed one against Bob and he immediately started screaming that he couldn't do anything.  I calmly explained to him that that was the idea and dropped him with a haymaker.   The other instance was when I landed one against the AI and I only landed jabs and crosses and the AI eventually came out of the stun.  I can't remember if the AI was able to defend itself or not so further investigation is needed. 

There are some worries out there that these punches are gimmicky, but my impressions is that they are not.  The gameplay is still well balanced and EA accomplished this by slowing down the haymaker animation and making both of the new punches even slow to throw.  The result is that you can effectively box and defend against them.  The only punches I feel are a little out of balance are the signature punches and only a few select ones.  I feel that some fighters have too fast of a signature punch or a punch that is too hard to tell if it is going high or low.   These facts coupled with a signature punch's damage ability makes it very hard to defend and absorb with some fighters.  Finally, I'll let everyone know that the first person mini game from the stun cannot be turned off, but it happens so rarely (SO RARELY) that it doesn't effect my opinion of the game.  The new punches are really easy to see coming, are really slow, and very simple to defend.  If you get caught by one it is usually because you were attempting to throw one yourself and your opponent ducked it effectively.

I need to go to an appointment now so I'll leave you with these and finish up in a couple of hours.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JasonSGN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-26-2006 at 1:50pm
Excellent impressions. You've answered every question/concern that I had with the game (especially about NOT being able to turn off the first-person mode ). I really wish magazine and web site reviews were half as informative.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TedSGN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-26-2006 at 3:11pm
Further exploration of the flash KO and stun mechanic revealed something interesting to me.  The developers claim that you can change to momentum and outcome of a fight with a single punch.  This is only part true.  Early on, before I explored the AI, I saw some things that were truly delightful to behold and I'll share them now.

My first amateur bout was a four rounder.  I boxed neatly and disciplined in the first two rounds, winning them easily 10-9.  Then I decided to open up a bit and try the new punches.  The haymakers were slower and my opponent effectively blocked them.  At some point though, I avoided a big punch by my opponent and popped him with a flash KO uppercut.  He immediately drained and I entered the KO moment.  I dropped him with a combo and he took an eight count and got up.  The round ended.  Feeling the satisfaction of that moment I came out in the final round head hunting.  I swung wildly, just looking for that big punch and close to the end my opponent blocked with a counter that caused me to lose my balance just like in round 2.  However, he let lose with a flash KO of his own and I went straight down like a sack of potatoes.  I managed to get up at the count of four, but spent the rest of the round boxing conservatively and taking the decision.  I learned my lesson.

I went on to see moments like this several times, both online and offline, sometimes on the giving end, sometimes on the receiving end, and occassionally losing fights.

Another appointment...more to come.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TedSGN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-26-2006 at 6:28pm
To continue the impressions of the momentum changes.  The things I've seen are things like leading a fight for six straight rounds only to be knocked down twice and lose in a KO in the seventh.  In this case I was Robinson fighting Lamotta.  Lamotta opened up my left eye early and I did the same to him.  I protected that eye while trying to work on his.  I started getting a little loose in the seventh round because I heard the ring announcer talking about the doctor stopping the fight soon if Lamotta's corner didn't do something about that eye.  I worked it more and the announcer said that the fight was on the verge of being stopped.  This entire round I was taking shots as well, but I figured I could outlast him.  I was wrong, very wrong.

To sum up my impression of the new punches, I think they are implemented extremely well and even the minigame on the back of the stun punch is not a detraction to the experience since you can defend yourself and either last long enough to get out of it or counter a punch to get out of the minigame.  It probably is just an extra thing the game could do without, but as long as it doesn't hurt the game I don't have a problem with it.

In practical application though, during the heat of the moment it is difficult to execute the three haymakers.  Not that a haymaker is difficult to pull off, but the subtlety between the three types means that you may try to throw one type and unintentionally throw another.  The relsults can be disasterous if your timing is off because each one is progressively slower to execute than its predecessor.  Not only slower with the stick, but the animation is delayed for each one so that when you throw a stun you actually finish the move on the stick and wait for the animation to begin.

Before I forget, I should mention that some of the power of the regular jabs, crosses, hooks, and uppercuts has been tamed so the power spectrum of the game has been noticably widened.

You can win rounds by throwing nothing but regular punches, but you won't necessarily win them easily because the game seems to reward a player that takes the risk to throw the power punches.  Of course you can still score knockdowns and knockouts without the power punches, but it will take some time and will likely only happen in the later rounds.  All in all I feel the punching and power system is very balanced.

All things considered I give a strong positive impression to the new punches.  They increase the complexity of the bout both on the finesse side and on the power side of your tactical choices.

I'll speak to the AI concerns for a little bit now.  Is the AI better than last year?  I think it is.  Last year there were only 3 types of AI fighter, speed, balance, and power.  The second the bell for the first round clanged you knew what you would be facing the entire fight and just made one adjustment.  This made eventually fighting on the hardest difficulty easy for me because basically the AI was very predictable.

This year I think there are still only 3 AI fighter types, but the developers appear to have added some extra processes to the AI decision making.  For example, last year if I were facing a power fighter he would show me zero respect.  He would come charging at me constantly during the fight and I spent the first half of the fight just blocking shots and waiting for the inevitable fatigue to set in so he would slow down and I could unleash my attack, either trying to win the last half of the fight plus one round or get a knockout from the severely taxed AI fighter.

This year on medium level that same power fighter may charge you when he feels you are vulnerable, but I've seen plenty of moments when he'll back off if you combo him and measure you up and come in again for another try.  Maybe they fight a smarter fight or maybe it is just an illusion.  One thing is for sure, they are more defensive, and more careful on medium level.  It's as if they know that you can knock them down with one punch and they are going to make sure you don't get that chance.

That being said, one of the results is that punch counts are down, albeit only a few percentage points.  Where I regularly saw punch counts in Round 2 going over one hundred every round, I usually see counts in the seventies or eighties depending on the type of fight I'm fighting.  I've even seen counts in the forties and fifties when I play a dancing finesse style.  The nice thing is that on medium level the AI adjusts itself to what I am doing.  I can get it to throw one hundred punches in a round, but that is if I close in and go toe to toe for the round.  The AI will defend itself and punch back and try to counter.  If I box conservatively the AI will adjust.  Most of the time the thrown punch totals are within 10% of each other

Hard difficulty is another matter entirely.  I feel the game is quite broken at that level in the sense that the AI fighters throw any semblance of human intelligence out the window.  Whether they are speed, balance, or power all I seem to see is power punches thrown, and thrown indiscriminantly.  Whereas a medium level fighter will only throw when you are close to in range, you can literally back away constantly from a slower fighter and watch him flail wildly while you are 10 feet away from him.  It's a joke.

More to do.  More to come.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TedSGN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-26-2006 at 8:41pm
You may be saying, "Just defend and counter those wild power punches".  Sure, I can block them.  I can even counter them.  The problem I have is that the AI on hard difficulty throws a stun punch just slightly slower than my jabs and faster than any other punch I can throw.  This is horribly unfair and amounts to nothing more than a gross speed cheat.  On top of that there is no strategy to the AI's fighting on hard.  It's just swing hard, hard, harder, hardest.  Repeat ad nauseam.  Thankfully medium is a good balance at the moment unless my fighter is grossly superior to my opponent, and so far that is only occurring in the early part of the career mode.

To sum up the AI, it is improved from Round 2, and I didn't realize just how much until I put Round 2 back in my xbox and fought a few bouts.  The Round 2 fighters, which I felt were good, looked robotic and predictable compared to their Round 3 counterparts.  The only superiority I found in the round 2 fighters is that they did a better job of punching where you game them openings.  The Round 3 group tends to punch randomly at times.  I ran this experiment.  I didn't throw a punch in Round 2 and just stood there covering my face.  My AI opponent threw nothing but body punches the entire round and he landed one hundred percent of them.  The same experiment in Round 3 produced a mixed bag of the AI throwing high and low and only landing forty-eight percent of its punches.  While on the surface this appears to be a serious problem, in actual gameplay the AI holds up very well and it is perhaps this unpredictability to its punches that make it a formidable opponent.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote TedSGN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-26-2006 at 9:24pm
I've saved the strongest point of the game for last.  You're saying to yourself, "The Graphics", but it's more than that.  Yes it looks good, but that really doesn't matter.  It's how the game moves that will blow you away.  How the ring feels more 3D than previous versions, and how the sounds and the new animations will draw you further in than you were in Round 2.

First the sounds are there that you expect.  The sharp exhale of breath through the nostrils early in the round when you exhale during a punch.  The exhale and grunt through the mouth later in the round when you are breathing heavier.  The sound of exhaustion when you are foolishly swinging to often and totally punched out.  Then there is the sound of clinking metal connectors from the ropes to the turnbuckles.  Gone is the annoying cannon shot of the landing haymaker and replacing it is a stronger thud of a well connected punch.  There is a loud sound with the other power punches, but both of them occur during a slow motion transition to the KO moment and the FP minigame so nothing seem out of place.  In short, everything sounds as it should.

The ropes are alive and elastic in Round 3.  Now getting pinned against the ropes is really a bad thing as your opponent can use the rebounding action to put more hurt into those uppercuts and crosses.  I was absolutely delirious when I sent Bob reeling with a knockdown after I landed 3 uppercuts in a row that had him bobbing back and forth like he was on a rubberband.  It looked so real and SO good.  If you push your fighter back into the ropes in the right way you can actually lean into them and I'm sure there is a way to get a rebound effect to spring back into your opponents face with extra power.  I just haven't been able to pull it off yet.

Then there are the fighters themselves.  I didn't fully appreciate the difference and drastic improvement to the animations until I put Round 2 back in for a few fights.  It absolutely can't compare to Round 3 in animations.  It feels as if so many missing frames of animation from Round 2 are filled in.  There is a real grace to the fighters now, and especially the speed fighters.  Many of the licensed fighters have their stances and their jabs and crosses in the game.  Don't get me wrong.  If you fight AI Sugar Ray Leonard it's not like fighting Sugar Ray Leonard.  You're just fighting a speed fighter that looks like Sugar Ray Leonarard.  BUT, if you every watched Sugar Ray Leonard and remember what he looked like when he boxed, how he moved, how he bobbed and weaved, how he danced in a circle around his opponent while firing that quick jab, then you can become the Sugarman.  You can make him move like Sugarman, punch like Sugarman.  You become Sugarman.  Other fighters are similar.  Ali  looks and feels like Ali, Duran looks and stalks like Duran.  Some fighters are better portrayed than others, but there are so many styles, stances, and defensive moves now that Round 3 is more alive than ever.

The game is beautiful and EA did a really, really good job with these animations.  Again, fighting AI fighters doesn't give you this feeling, but online when you fight someone who can mimic the proper style that the boxer was designed for......gorgeous.

Finally the knockdown animations.  The most notable and greatly improved one is the body shot knockdown.  EA did away with the uninspiring and phony looking body punch knockout from Round 2.  Now, if a body punch is what sends the fighter to the canvas he will hold his abdomen and drop to a knee or all fours.  It appears like he gets the wind knocked out of him and grimaces in pain.  When you land that body punch that sends him down some blood will be expelled from his mouth if he was bleeding from the mouth.  It is a very realistic looking animation and very gratifying.  I found Round 2's body knockdown animations very anticlimactic, but Round 3's are great.

The head punch knockdowns seem a little less varietal than Round 2, but are still very satisfying.  There seems to be less of a ragdoll effect to the fighters fall and it seems more canned, but still very believable.  Basically an uppercut or straight punch knockdown will cause the fighter to look very stunned and wide eyed as he falls straight back.  Good animation.  The cross knockdowns look more like the fighter is put to sleep as he get sent reeling to the side, eyes in  half slits as he hits the mat face forward.  They still cause quite a ruckus every time they happen, but they feel a little stiffer then some fo the great ragdoll stuff going on in Round 2.

The cutman minigame survives in Round 3, albeit simplified.  The swelling is split into two halves instead of four quadrants and is done on a percentage basis instead of points.  Basically if a fighter had one hundred points of swelling he now has ten percent swelling on that one side.  The cuts occur more frequently and are harder to manage than in Round 2.  Again a percentage meter replaces the points system and two halves replace the quadrants.  They also replaced following a cursor with a simple get in the rhythym method of healing.  In practical application it is easier to do the motion necessary to maximize your healing speed.  However, they reduced overall speed now so that healing fifty percent total for the game on any one problem is about the maximum you can acheive.  If you have to split your time between two or three problem areas you'll be lucky to heal over  thirty percent total during the minigame.  And now the swelling percentages lag behind the cut ones.  It's common to see swelling at only ten or fifteen percent between rounds, but one cut can commonly cause fifty percent or even sixty percent damage during a round.  Basically if you are cut you ignore the swelling now, just as a real fighter would have his cutman do.  The cut is a priority and if neglected will end your fight fast.

All things considered, Round 3 is deserving of the high 80 and low 90 scores it is receiving.  It's a solid improvement of Round 2's fighting engine and while the offline AI isn't as much fun as I remember Round 2 being, the online play is much better just because you can do so much more and the fighters' movements look more human than ever.

I'm confident that I can recommend this as an upgrade and would advise anyone to do so.  It just depends if Round 2 still has legs for you or if your wife will get mad if you buy another game .  It's not a matter of if you should upgrade.  It's a matter of WHEN.

I'll post more if I think of something I may have forgot.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TedSGN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-26-2006 at 9:25pm
I did forget something.  Stamina is portrayed better in Round 3 than Round 2.  Health has been tweaked as well.

And after a fight online you don't get disconnected from chat with your opponent.  You can chat for awhile after the fight in Round 3.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JasonSGN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-26-2006 at 10:27pm

I'm glad to see that your copy of FN: Round 2, that I shipped last week, will be arriving tomorrow .

You've convinced me to upgrade, but not right away. Until I actually play Round 3, Round 2 will hold up fine for me. Are you still interested in the Fight Night Round 2 Career League? If not, I sent you a gift receipt with your copy of Round 2 so you can return it to any Target store for full price.

BTW, you're going to receive all the blame for the fight that is sure to start between my wife and I if you keep praising Fight Night Round 3 .

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Post Options Post Options   Quote TedSGN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-26-2006 at 11:34pm
The idea was to convince you to upgrade and trust me you'll be glad when you do.  I have no problem with waiting as I only want to play with it online.  If it was as good as round 2 offline I would jump on it right now.  Maybe we'll get lucky with a price drop in a month or two or a sale?  Whenever we do get it I hope Kevin will be ready to grab it as well.  I'm thinking at the full $40 it's worth it, at $30 it's very tempting and $20 it becomes a steal.  Round 2 remained full price for a real long time though.

Whenever it happens my plan is to finish the career league with Round 2 first so I won't be returning anything .
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JasonSGN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-27-2006 at 7:06am

Originally posted by Ted_L


Whenever it happens my plan is to finish the career league with Round 2 first so I won't be returning anything .

I'm glad to hear that. I felt bad that I sent you Round 2 when you seem to be enjoying Round 3 so much.

For the record, you have absolutely convinced me to purchase Round 3 and (unlike Round 2) I'm sure it will be on sale somewhere for $29 in the next few weeks. I may have to wait until after March to purchase it though since one of the biggest fights my wife and I had was when I purchased MVP 2004 right before her birthday (in March) two years ago and failed to get her anything that good for her birthday. In all fairness, I made up for it last year and for Christmas though.

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