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Ted
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Posted: January 03 2006 at 5:59pm | IP Logged Quote Ted

Jason says he has a demo of WE9 for PS2 and since I've been playing PES5 on PC for a month or so I thought I would finally post a few thoughts.

In usual fashion, Konami has acquired a few more licenses and added them to the game.  Which ones?  I don't know.  I don't follow the real sport so it never matters to me which teams are real and which aren't.

The menu system has returned to the simple text menus (pre WE8) which I like better.

The first time I played a match with PES5 I was floored by the player behavior and the ball movement.  I've been playing this series since WE6 and the improvement in ball physics, body physics, and player intereraction since then is fantastic.  The improvement from WE8 is noticeable immediately.

The physical contact between players has been greatly improved.  It is the most remarkable improvement that this series has made.  This is the closest representation to what I see in a TV match in regards to player intereaction, especially in the EPL.  The most notable new animation is when players will shield the ball with their bodies by turning their backs on the defenders and holding them off the ball.  The interaction when a defender challenges for the ball from a dribbling player has been given great variety as well.  Gone is the run alongside elbowing each other.  It's fun to stop the game and watch a replay of a challenge and just watch the animation of the footwork.  I've seen many more new animations, too many to keep track of.  I feel like this game has taken a huge leap forward in animations and it was excellent before this year in that department.

The series has always been good about being able to tell a premier player from an average player and then again from a reserve player.  It is even more noticeable this year.  It just seems that the best players can do so much more with the ball than the average players.  And the bottom players have trouble just controlling their dribbles and putting their passes on target.

I've notice the computer using long balls more than in the past.  I also see that the goalie standing and watching the ball barely missing the post is gone.

I am having trouble finding a comfortable difficulty level.  2 stars is too easy with a good team, while 3 stars is too hard with the same team.  I did have the same problem with the PC version of PES4.  I just couldn't get as comfortable on 3 star as with the console version.

While I haven't lost on 2 star level, the computer does score on me consistently and I even had a 4-3 game.  In 20 games the CPU has scored on me with a free kick 3 times!  On 2 stars!  I've only ever been scored on with a free kick one time in WE7 and that was on 5 star.  The most noticable difference between 2 and three star is player speed and I am unable to tell at what level the CPU and human players have equal ratings.

Midfield play is better than ever and while I am only a layman with this sport I think the CPU does a much better job in the buildup.  I see much more passing into negative space, even all the way back to the backline to restart the attack.  The longball is more prominent and the headers in midfield are much more numerous.  There have been times when I've seen 4 or 5 headers in a row as guys fight in the middle during 50/50's.

Fouls are numerous and well called.  You and the CPU can get carded for non sliding fouls.

The penalty shots awarded are toned down.  I used to get a lot of PK's in WE8, especially early in the ML season, and then it seemed to go away about mid season.  I haven't seen more than a handful in 20 games so far with PES5.

Goalie animations have been enhanced as well, most noticeably when they are throwing the ball out to the backline.  You also have more options for throwing the ball in from touch now.

I'm sure I have more, but I've been putting this post off for too long so here is something for you at least.  If I think of or come across anything else I'll be sure to post. 

Adam, if you have anything to add I'd love to hear it.  You can do the game better justice than I.

This is a must-buy in my opinion.






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Brent
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Posted: January 03 2006 at 7:00pm | IP Logged Quote Brent

Good Stuff Ted.

Preordered, paid off, and ready to pick it up when it shows up at my local EB for the Xbox.



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Posted: January 03 2006 at 8:50pm | IP Logged Quote Ted

Thanks, BD.  Some more......

Last year you had to play quite a few games to unlock the "customize master league" option which let you choose which teams went into which of the 4 divisions.  It's the same this year, but I noticed that if you choose to play with a "create original team" in the ML that the game automatically distributes the teams to the four leagues very well. 

You're never sure what mix you will get as far as leagues, but in each league you will get a homegenous group.  The EPL teams will all be in one league, Bundesliga in another, etc.  It's simple to just keep creating a league until you get the right combo you want, for instance EPL, Primera Leagua, Bundesliga, Eredivisie.  It even throws the remaining licensed grouping league containing Celtic, Rangers, Galatasaray, et. al. into the mix as one of the leagues so they are available as well.  Unfortunately I don't see a way to customize the league after you select this option, but I'll take it this way over last year's way any day.

Along this line you also can fully customize your roster when choosing "create original team".  Last year you could only exchange up to 3 players on your roster and the points (salary) had to equal out at the end.  This year you can dump everyone and raid the other teams mercilessly.  As long as you can pay the salary at the end of the season you can create the team and take it for a whirl.

****Very Minor Spoiler Alert******

Finally, they retired some of the old ML scrubs.  And they did it with a touch of class.  Rather than just having them not be there anymore you get a popup that says "Players who have contributed to the team for many years are retiring.  Thanks for the hard work.  View the retiring players' details and check out the newcomers".  10 or so players retire (I'll let you see who does for yourself, but it is the older guys who are leaving) and you can click on each one and see their portrait, name, age, and nationality.  The even made up some pretend stats so you can also see total matches, goals, and assists.  They are all replaced by young guys so you get a chance to develop some youngsters right from the start with your ML without having to worry about negotiating for them.




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Posted: January 03 2006 at 9:47pm | IP Logged Quote Jason

Excellent read Ted. I'm looking forward to giving the demo a spin tomorrow night.

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Posted: January 03 2006 at 9:48pm | IP Logged Quote Ted

Wow, just had another free kick scored against me on 2 star.  This one tied the game and it ended drawn 1-1.

Something else I noticed.  At the end of the match when you get to the stat screen it awards a player a star which is man of the match and it also writes some notes at the bottom about certain players who had quality moments or play during the match.


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Posted: January 04 2006 at 2:11pm | IP Logged Quote Toper

I had a chance to play PES 5 on my friend's modded xbox, and I pretty much echo Ted's thoughts...just another solid effort by the Konami team with enough improvements to make it hard to go back to the previous version.

On a semi-related note, I had the chance to pick up FIFA for the 360 on the cheap, and it has been a pleasant surprise.  EA has FINALLY decided to make it play more like the Winning Eleven series, and I couldn't be more happier.  I'm almost embarrassed to admit that this one has gotten the most playtime for me on the 360 lately (it's that much improved). 

Hopefully, Konami will kick out a 360 version of WE someday, but with their track record, I can't really hold my breath for that.
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Posted: January 04 2006 at 3:48pm | IP Logged Quote Brent

Toper wrote:


Hopefully, Konami will kick out a 360 version of WE someday, but with their track record, I can't really hold my breath for that.


It was already confirmed last summer that it is in the works.

Winning Eleven series executive producer Shinji Enomoto appeared onstage and commented that his project for the Xbox 360 is still in a very preliminary stage, but he said the game should be coming out sometime next year. "We've just begun development, and unfortunately, we don't have a trailer to show yet. But although we've only begun the project, it's already going smoothly," said Enomoto. "It should take about one year to finish the game. We hope to release it in Japan between fall and winter of 2006."

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/sports/winningeleven/news.ht ml?sid=6129709


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Posted: January 04 2006 at 3:50pm | IP Logged Quote Toper

bdoughty wrote:
Toper wrote:


Hopefully, Konami will kick out a 360 version of WE someday, but with their track record, I can't really hold my breath for that.


It was already confirmed last summer that it is in the works.

Winning Eleven series executive producer Shinji Enomoto appeared onstage and commented that his project for the Xbox 360 is still in a very preliminary stage, but he said the game should be coming out sometime next year. "We've just begun development, and unfortunately, we don't have a trailer to show yet. But although we've only begun the project, it's already going smoothly," said Enomoto. "It should take about one year to finish the game. We hope to release it in Japan between fall and winter of 2006."

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/sports/winningeleven/news.ht ml?sid=6129709




This is great news...thanks for the update, BD.  Thankfully, Fifa will do until then (especially when the World Cup comes around).
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Posted: January 04 2006 at 5:18pm | IP Logged Quote GB_Simo

Ted, haven't played it for ages so I do need a refresher course before posting anything massively detailed but I can throw a few thoughts in now.

We've already covered the CPU build up play, but it's worth noting that your own attacking work has to improve this year.  It's harder now to create a scoring opportunity, and if you're playing a 10 minute match with two evenly matched sides then you'll find that chances are at a premium throughout.  The player now has to consider the idea of going backwards to keep possession rather than bulldozing forward, which was possible to a degree in PES4.  What that means, of course, is that when you do score the sense of achievement is greater than in any of the previous PES titles.

Free kicks - the system is exactly the same as before but it seems as though there's a bit more tolerance built into it.  It's easier to hit the target than before - I scored more free kicks in one week with PES5 than I did in a year of PES4 - but it does still require enough skill that goals don't feel at all cheap.

Here's where my lack of recent playtime hurts - I remember the application of the advantage rule has changed a little, I know I don't like it and I can't remember why.  Leave that one with me.  Awarding of fouls is generally improved but there's still the odd You What? moment featuring a foul that really wasn't.  I'd personally write a feature like that into the code anyway, whether it's meant to be there or not it does a fairly good job of representing how referees are.

The big difference without the ball is that your reckless, mistimed, nowhere-near-the-ball lunge at nothingness (fine - my reckless, mistimed...) will now be punished.  Give a CPU team any sort of space and they'll look to exploit it, making it more important than ever that you're capable of keeping defenders on their feet and in position.  Mind, there are times when you really won't want to do that - goalmouth scrambles with the net gaping and a gaggle of attackers pressing into the area, where all you want to do is get bodies in the way and if those bodies happen to be on the floor or lunging boots-first at the ball, then fine.  PES5 reproduces this kind of situation with an accuracy that promises to shred your nerves after a second.

Difficulty wise, I havent tried the lower levels but at the 4 and 5* end of things, it's undoubtedly harder - not necessarily to keep a clean sheet, but certainly harder to win matches.  The trade off is that as it gets trickier, it also plays a more fluid, convincing game of football than any Konami title to date.  Must buy?  Yup...having said that I've not played it recently, I only stopped playing it because I didn't once turn it off before 3 in the am...

Something I'd recommend doing at the earliest opportunity is unlocking the player cam.  Lock yourself to one player for 90 virtual minutes, and while you blindly charge around trying to score from left back, watch what goes on around you - it might not exactly be Brazil, but it's undeniably football.

Cheers,
Adam

 



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Posted: January 04 2006 at 8:21pm | IP Logged Quote K_Mosley

Great stuff, Ted and Adam...  Although I'm pleasantly surprised with FIFA 06 (don't laugh; I'm weak!), you guys are getting me pumped for WE again...

Kevin



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